How Google Works

Discussion in 'SEO and Marketing' started by bobski, Apr 4, 2016.

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  1. bobski

    bobski Member

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  2. cardine

    cardine Administrator Staff Member

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    The video and notes are very informative. I don't know if it gives anything that we didn't already know from an SEO perspective, but the whole point of technical SEO is to reverse engineer Google's algorithm, and understanding the problems that Google's engineers face is incredibly important trying to deduce how Google might go about solving a problem. And knowing how Google engineers try to solve different search problems is incredibly important when trying to figure out how Google's algorithm works.

    Here is the presentation Sugarrae is giving notes on:
     
  3. shaqattaq

    shaqattaq Active Member

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    I never knew they publicly released their search quality guidelines. I heard him mention it and found this. A long read but well worth it I'm sure.
     
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  4. vlachs

    vlachs Active Member

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    People often consider that Google developers know how the serp it's calculated but they actually dont. I dont think there is a person that works on Google who knows how it works because the serps are influenced by different departments like Webmaster, Search Quality, Webspam and so on, each department coming with some tweaks for the algorithm.
     
  5. Bender Bending Rodríguez

    Bender Bending Rodríguez Senior Member

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    They don't know how it's calculated but they still know the overarching idea.

    For example, no one knows the CocaCola recipe but we all know (including Coke employees) what it's made of: carbonated water, high fructose corn syrup (sugar outside of the US), flavoring, and preservatives.

    You don't need to know every minute detail to know how something works.
     
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  6. vlachs

    vlachs Active Member

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    Yeah but that does not mean you're gonna be able to replicate CocaCola. Thats the ideea with serp, we just make some guesses and they might all be false but in some context unknown to use we might rank.
     
  7. Bender Bending Rodríguez

    Bender Bending Rodríguez Senior Member

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    If you're a bad SEO, yes.

    Search engine engineers only have so many theories from which they can build a search engine from. If your SEO is in accordance to those theories, you'll rank well in any search engine, now or in the future.

    It's no guesswork dude.
     
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  8. vlachs

    vlachs Active Member

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    Theories = guesses

    Well that means you are making a killing on ranking heavy keywords in google. Nowadays everyone its an expert...
     
  9. Bender Bending Rodríguez

    Bender Bending Rodríguez Senior Member

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    If that's true, then Google Engineers are making guesses left and right :)
     
  10. vlachs

    vlachs Active Member

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    I think there's a confusion, I'm not talking about Google engineers, i talk about us, the guys trying to rank.
     
  11. cardine

    cardine Administrator Staff Member

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    I think the idea is that if you can get into the head of a Google engineer it makes it easier to do more than just guess at what Google might be doing.
     
  12. Bender Bending Rodríguez

    Bender Bending Rodríguez Senior Member

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    Guess is defined as "estimate or suppose (something) without sufficient information to be sure of being correct."

    Here's what a good SEO does (or at least what I do):

    1.) Search engine engineers at build search engines from Information Retrieval Theories.
    2.) Information Retrieval Theories are publically available (ie PageRank, TrustRank, Hilltop, LSA, etc).
    3.) Any SEO can learn Information Retrieval Theories.
    4.) An SEO can than judge search engine updates, SERP rankings, SERP anomalies (ie googling "buy viagra online"), and his/her own experience to come to an understanding of how search engine engineers at Bing, Google, Amazon, iOS Marketplace, etc are creating their algorithm.
    5.) That SEO can than do thing that will improve his/her website's rankings based upon his/her knowledge, ie "optimize."
    6.) That SEO can than track the results of the SEO campaign in #5 with organic traffic and rankings.
    7.) That SEO can improve his/her knowledge of the search engine.

    So, no, it we're not estimating or supposing something without sufficient information to be sure that it is correct.
     
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  13. vlachs

    vlachs Active Member

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    I'm gonna stop my part because this is BS. You are the first person who states that he knows how Google algorithm works. Everything you've posted(in my opinion) represents the guessing part because you dont have a valid proof that a certain improvement in positions can be 100% because of a single thing. Your position can be influenced by various factors who you might interpret in certain ways and someone different can interpret them in other ways, thats why there are metrics like DA/TF and others.

    I'm gonna say again, you must be "making a killing in serp on hard niches" with all that info...

    @cardine Yeah, but finally it's just a guess who might work but that does not mean it's a valid point. If you can replicate the results 100% on other keywords(like 1000 domains, 1000 keys) by just doing x thing and dominating the serps with the exact same results, then maybe it's true. But tell me, when that happened? Sometimes it's a hit or miss thing(i'm talking about top3 on medium to hard niches)
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
  14. Bender Bending Rodríguez

    Bender Bending Rodríguez Senior Member

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    Okay.

    I never said that.

    No. In my case study right here I've isolated all foreseeable interference and have a control group. This would be valid proof.

    This doesn't even make sense. What's the relationship between multiple interpretations and multiple metrics? There are multiple metrics because there are multiple SEO tools.
     
  15. vlachs

    vlachs Active Member

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    Final response.

    Multiple metrics that follow different approaches for the same thing, domain authority(or page authority). People interpret things different because of they're background, personality and so on. One thing that might look certain to you, for someone else would be invalid and both of you to be wrong.
     
  16. Bender Bending Rodríguez

    Bender Bending Rodríguez Senior Member

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    hahahaha that's just ridiculous.
     
  17. John Stover

    John Stover Member

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    I was watching an interview from SMX West with one of Google's engineers. He summed it up perfectly. He said (I'm paraphrasing), "We know how it works, we just don't know what it's doing. None of the engineers at Google do". He was referring to RankBrain, but I think this applies to their algorithm as a whole.
     
  18. cardine

    cardine Administrator Staff Member

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    Yeah that's how most machine learning algorithms work nowadays. You have an algorithm, you give it a huge amount of data, and the conclusion you hope it would reach from that data. If you do that enough (millions of times) the algorithm will find patterns and learn what in that huge data it should be looking at to give you the desired output, which in this case is some sort of score or metric about where a site should be ranking.

    So you know what you want to have happen, you know that your algorithm is giving you what you want X% of the time, you know how your algorithm works, but you don't know exactly what patterns your algorithm is picking up and learning from.

    So when I see people saying things like "RankBrain will target this" or "RankBrain will stop that from working" or "the consequences of RankBrain are these things" I have to laugh a little bit, because it is clear that commentator has no clue what they are talking about and is talking out of their ass. Even Google's engineers don't know exactly what RankBrain is targeting or not targeting - they are giving it a huge amount of data about a website, where that site should be ranked, and then letting RankBrain find small patterns in the data that correlate with higher rankings.

    And those patterns that RankBrain looks for are just as exploitable as every other metric Google has ever used to decide where a site should be ranking.
     
  19. Bender Bending Rodríguez

    Bender Bending Rodríguez Senior Member

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    In college, I had a graduate level class on Computation Cognitive Neuroscience. We got to build our own neural networks and teach it tasks such as visual recognition. It was awesome seeing the software neurons learn the task. It was equally awesome looking at the neurons once they've learned the task. You can obviously tell they've learned something but exactly what they're looking at you'll never know.
     
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  20. John Stover

    John Stover Member

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    Citizen Four is one of my favorite documentaries. Not necessarily from a political standpoint, but more how it made people understand how sophisticated "systems" are at collecting data about YOU. I thought they dumbed it down perfectly for the layman to understand. Google, Facebook, etc..are doing the same thing the NSA is. It's no different.