Ted Cruz wins Iowa Caucus

Discussion in 'Apex Lounge' started by cardine, Feb 1, 2016.

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  1. KS1905

    KS1905 Active Member

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    Trump is leading in most of the polls in all the upcoming states, even if he doesn't win them all he is in great shape. Trump blew out Rubio & Cruz last night, he more than doubled their totals in Nevada.

    David Axlerod (Obama's former Chief of Staff) made a great point on CNN last night, he thinks that Trump should let Cruz win Texas this way it keeps Cruz in the race and prevents Rubio from gaining enough traction because those two are competing for 2nd place in all the races. If Cruz loses Texas then he is done.

    It's comical when a Presidential candidate can behave the way that Trump has and still have a legitimate chance of winning.
     
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  2. KS1905

    KS1905 Active Member

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    The whole Scilia nomination thing makes this an even more interesting race, finally people will realize that they are also voting for Supreme Court Justices at the same time as they are voting for the President.

    With Republicans in the Senate refusing to hold any hearing this could either backfire and rally the Dems base for a large turnout but I'm really thinking that they are trying to influence Obama's choice in the Justice that he is going to nominate and forcing him to nominate a very moderate democrat or even more preferably a moderate Republican Judge so he can get the justice as least heard and possibly confirmed. If he nominates someone that is too liberal then they'll just block it and say that they're not going to bother because the judge liberal and probably enough voters would accept it.

    If the Democrats win then they might be able to nominate 2-3 liberal justices to the bench in the next 4 years which will totally swing the balance of the courts for the next 10-15 years. Including Scilia there are/were 4 justices above the age of 75 years.
     
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  3. slayerment

    slayerment New Member

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    @cardine, what do you like about Rubio more than Trump?
     
  4. cardine

    cardine Administrator Staff Member

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    I am a libertarian and very simply Donald Trump is the opposite of that.

    Trump has made it a huge focal point that he wants to stifle immigration and build a wall in Mexico while a true libertarian or non interventionist would welcome immigration and it is generally accepted among economists that immigration improves the economy. (Hoover Institution is Republican leaning and is very pro free enterprise).

    Trump is also alarmingly anti-trade which is an extremely anti free market stance. Countless news outlets (both liberal and conservative) have pointed out that not only does Trump have no clue what he is talking about when it comes to trade, and in general free trade has hugely benefited the US. And regardless of whether it has or hasn't benefited the US, excluding trade partners is a very authoritarian position to take. Additionally his proposed tariffs are incredibly anti free trade.

    Trump has also made incredibly racist and authoritarian comments when he stated that he thought that we should require Muslims in the US to register in a database or be required to carry a special identification that identified their fate and remained open to the idea of warrantless searches. This is pretty morally reprehensible and also extremely authoritarian.

    His stances on the internet are equally as authoritarian, managing to both be alarmingly anti-libertarian and ignorant on how the internet even works.

    Lastly Donald Trump used to be a Democrat and in the past has donated heavily to Democrats.

    I would consider myself to be very heavily libertarian and here is how much I agree with each candidate according to ISideWith.com:

    upload_2016-2-26_16-37-29.png

    Unsurprisingly Gary Johnson (Libertarian) is the person who aligns the most with my viewpoints and Donald Trump is way at the bottom. Marco Rubio is hardly ideal but right now I'm just looking for the less of a lot of evils and I'm not looking forward to the prospect of a Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton election.

    Considering my answers were very consistently libertarian with few exceptions I think this would be pretty typical for what any libertarian believes. In general I've been pretty flabbergasted that so many so called libertarians support Trump which leads me to believe that many of these libertarians don't actually believe in small government, but instead just really hate the status quo and anyone in power and want an outsider regardless of that outsider's actual opinions.
     
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  5. slayerment

    slayerment New Member

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    Thanks for the response cardine. I figured most Libertarians were Trump supporters, but I can see why you're not and what you're saying makes sense. Appreciate the detailed reply.
     
  6. dzianis

    dzianis Moderator Staff Member

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    It's good to be a libertarian in a society of educated, rational and mentally healthy individuals that share your values. Unfortunately the world is far from that and there are more than just rational quantifiable economy-based factors at play. While domestically small government is a great thing that lets people develop fast and free, having open borders and eliminating international security in our unevenly developed world is just suicidal. And I think a lot of libertarians support Trump because of his background - he's a businessman and not a career politician. That alone could be a reason for people to think he won't turn into a complete statist.

    I think you are mistaking Trump's tactical statements he uses to win the election for his "stance". He does what needs to be done to win. There are wars, bombing and refugee crises and people want safety - he pushes the safety agenda: enforce borders, double-check muslims. I mean when was the last time you've seen Maslow's needs hierarchy, where's the need for safety and where's respect for other cultures on it? I don't think anti-freedom and inhumane ideologies deserve any respect or airtime, what's the big deal with checking if people adhere to a violent cult anyway.

    Like I wrote in the internet closing thread he's not going to do any of the grotesque crap he throws out there, he just makes the media jump on it giving him free coverage. I remember Trump said something retarded about Putin's endorsement and I hated it just like I despise all Western right-wing ill-informed fascination with Putin, but I got over it because I know it doesn't mean anything. When and if time comes for any dealing with Russia I'm sure Trump will do well - there are teams and advisers for a reason.

    I just went through the ISideWith test too for fun, this is what I got:

    [​IMG]

    I wouldn't call myself a libertarian or a conservative though. I'm pro-freedom and pro-art, looks like that political science degree didn't change it at all :D

    Sure, I might be too far to judge but you guys might need to rise a bit over the paradigm too. Politics is the fight for power, and Trump is only going after victory at this point. The actual governance and management that follows after he wins is a whole different story. I'm pretty sure he's going to take the office and do well, you might as well get used to him... it's just 8 years :)
     
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  7. cardine

    cardine Administrator Staff Member

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    I am not advocating for the removal of all international security. However I do find it a little ridiculous that the United States spends more on defense than the next seven countries combined and it is a somewhat controversial opinion to want to dramatically downsize the size and scope of the US military:
    [​IMG]

    With very few exceptions, every politician is making tactical statements that they think will help win them the election. So I'd rather support a politician whose tactical statements at least somewhat align with my own.

    I see it as the opposite - we are actually very safe and Donald Trump is playing into Maslow's hierarchy of needs by creating a false sense that you are in serious danger. You are more likely to be fatally crushed by furniture than killed by a terrorist and yet politicians want to waste our money and restrict our freedom all in the name of "keeping us safe." I'd rather that money I'm paying in taxes stay in my pocket or at the very least go towards something that will actually save lives, such as curing cancer.

    This might sound elitist, but in my opinion a lot of this intense response to the threat of terrorism is the result of a bias in how humans think. Taken from the above article:
    It looks like regardless of who wins you'll be enjoying the outcome of this election far more than I will be!
     
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  8. KS1905

    KS1905 Active Member

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    In Donald Trump's Victory Speech in the Nevada Republican Primary he said that "he loves the poorly educated".
     
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  9. cardine

    cardine Administrator Staff Member

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    Although Donald Trump didn't sweep Super Tuesday he still had a pretty good showing. It's looking bleak enough that it's possible that the Republican Party is considering trying to force a contested convention, where nobody wins enough delegates for the nomination and then the actual opinions of the "delegates" themselves (people elected to represent the voters opinions) matter more, and presumably they would not pick Donald Trump. Interestingly this is a strategy that Ron Paul tried and failed to execute four years ago.

    In short this might be the weirdest primary ever with just about everyone besides Trump and his fervent supporters doing whatever they can think of to try to stop Trump.
     
  10. KS1905

    KS1905 Active Member

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    I think Trump is trolling all of America and just trying to see how far he can take this.

    Christie is the biggest fucking shrill ever. He looked so uncomfortable during Trump's speech on Tuesday night. It couldn't happen to a nicer bully, his political career is over unless Trump wins.
     
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  11. Envrin

    Envrin Active Member

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    There's a chance you've been right all along @cardine -- Trump is just a shrill for the Clinton campaign, because there's no way this can all actually be real.

    Now let's just hope things don't get out of hand, Trump gets the wrong ideas, and ends up rallying millions of people to pull out their "'Murica #1" foamy fingrers, and actually takes the general election. That would be quite bad for not just the US, but the entire planet.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2016
  12. ...

    ... Active Member

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    I think Chris Christie is salty that nobody likes him. I have lots of friends in New Jersey and everyone hates him there. Trump with Christie as his vice president would be the biggest middle finger to everyone. I love it.
     
  13. dzianis

    dzianis Moderator Staff Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  14. cardine

    cardine Administrator Staff Member

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    Ted Cruz had a really good weekend, pulling himself much closer to tying Donald Trump and making a contested convention (where no candidate gets the 50% required to win) seem much more likely. At this point since I personally think Donald Trump would be terrible, and I also do not like Ted Cruz, I am really hoping for a contested convention where someone a little more reasonable gets the nomination. Regardless of exactly how it ends up I can safely say I have never seen a nomination process anywhere close to being this eventful.
     
  15. Envrin

    Envrin Active Member

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    Really? Remember 2008, when Obama was going for it?



    That was quite eventful. Loads of Americans out there thought (and still think) he was secretly a Jihadist Muslim born in Kenya looking to infiltrate the American government. I know lots of people don't like him, but personally, I think he's been great. He's calm, cool, collected, thinks before he acts / speaks, etc. And as sad as it sounds, considering the current state of affairs, as long as we can get someone like that as the next leader of the free world, then we're looking ok.

    That's the best we can hope for from the looks of things. Not someone who's an amazing leader, because I think that's too much to hope for. Just someone who's not a total lunatic would be great.
     
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  16. cardine

    cardine Administrator Staff Member

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    It is especially unusual in this election because a candidate like Trump would usually be on the margins, collecting small support while being irrelevant in the big picture. In this case not only is Trump's outlandish style and rhetoric not on the margins, but it is winning him a nomination. It is also unusual how well Trump is doing despite the party establishment doing whatever it can to try to stop Trump - eight years ago the Democrat establishment was completely content with Obama.

    It still seems very likely that Trump is a factional candidate - he struggles to poll higher than 35% nationally (just among Republicans) and is almost nobodies "second choice" candidate. Yet due to a perfect storm here he is on his way to potentially winning the Republican nomination, or sending us to a contested convention (which has never happened before).

    Or to put it another way - these primaries have been crazy enough that Michael Bloomberg almost stepped in as a third party candidate, and likely would have if Bernie Sanders was on pace to win the Democratic nomination.

    Also interestingly (although maybe irrelevant in the big picture) is that Bernie Sanders won Michigan despite every single poll showing Clinton leading by a lot. It is considered by many to be one of the biggest polling screwups ever in the primaries.
     
  17. cardine

    cardine Administrator Staff Member

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    Tonight is the next "Super Tuesday" with two huge states voting. Florida and Ohio both award all of their delegates as a "winner takes all" and if Trump doesn't win both of them we'll likely have a contested convention where no nominee is picked. Right now polls show Trump with a lead over Rubio in Florida, but behind Kasich in Ohio. I still really want to see a contested convention because it has never happened before and because nobody really knows what will happen.

    It is also interesting because Rubio has told all of his supporters to vote for Kasich in Ohio, and Ted Cruz has pulled all of his funding out of Florida to make it easier for Rubio to win Florida.
     
  18. Simon

    Simon Member

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    That system would be much better then it is now.
     
  19. cardine

    cardine Administrator Staff Member

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  20. ...

    ... Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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